First, I want to agree with Theresa that I am not saying that a wife is responsible for her husband’s sin in pornography. And all that you said about that, Theresa, I whole heartedly agree with!

Stacy, I still say that all sins are a perversion of something Godly. This is really important to me. We are not just Christians living in a world owned by the Heathen. We are living in a world that Jesus Christ died to inherit. We are living in a world that is owned by Jesus Christ and His Church. This is OUR world. Not the Heathens. It is not our final Home. But it belongs to the Church for now. This means that everything within it belongs to us.

The Devil is not original. He can’t make up new things. He only perverts what God has made. After all, God made the whole world and everything in it. Has the devil made something new? No. He has only perverted and misused the things that God made good. So there is nothing at all, at the heart of the sin,
that cannot be redeemed.

Your examples of homosexuality and bestiality are still perversions of Godly sex. They are perversions of something that God made good. I am not saying that we should redeem and somehow practice the sexual relations between man and animal or people of the same sex, but we should not throw away sex because of
the perversions.

Some examples might be helpful.

Rape – a perversion of self-control, humility, sex within marriage, love and tender care of your spouse
Homosexuality – a perversion of Godly sex within marriage between a man and woman
Lust- a perversion of appropriate sexual desire for your spouse or appropriate appreciation and thanks for your own things as opposed to others’
Theft – a perversion of generosity and giving.

The Bible says, “He who steals must steal no longer; but rather he must labor, performing with his own hands what is good, so that he will have something to share with one who has need.”

The Bible shows us here that a Thief has been redeemed. Stealing has been redeemed. Our Lord Jesus can redeem the sinful and the sins. He doesn’t just turn a thief away from stealing. Instead, He redeems the man’s sin. He causes him to do good with his hands, instead of stealing with them, and to share with the one in need instead of being greedy for his own desires. This is a sin redeemed.

If sinful things cannot be redeemed, how can we, sinful people, be redeemed? And doesn’t Jesus typically take us, and the sins that we were drowning in, and turn us and make us opposite of those things? He takes the prostitute and makes her holy and clean, caring deeply about modesty and faithfulness to her
husband or future husband, should God bless her. He takes the man of anger and violence and makes him a man of patience and gentleness. He doesn’t just remove our sins, but He redeems us!

Theresa, you said, “It seems to me SoS style explicit poetry would be the photo equivalent of a wife taking a picture of herself enjoying a lollipop and giving it with a note that she’d like to enjoy him, too. Not the equivalent of a picture of a wife performing oral sex on her husband.”

I understand what you are saying and agree that SoS is highly poetic and will not be easily understood by children. But I don’t think that it rules out anything less than subtle between a husband and wife.

I guess I stand by this, if the Bible doesn’t call it a sin, then it is permissible. That doesn’t mean that all things are good for all people. Drinking alcohol is not a sin, but for someone who struggles with alcoholism, it would not be good for him to drink. But if it is not a sin, does not tempt me to sin, and does not cause anyone to stumble, then it is permissible. Moreover, if it adds to a Godly marriage and makes the marriage closer and stronger, then indeed, it is good. I think it is important that we don’t try to create our own lists of “right and wrong” that cannot be found within Scripture.

Stacy, we have considered the issue of pictures being left behind, should we both die. We have also talked about whether or not pictures would be permissible to look at after one of us would die, being that we wouldn’t be married any longer at that point. I think this can be dealt with by simply putting them in a container or envelope that is labeled “Private. Do not Open. Please destroy upon my/our death.”

I understand what you are saying when you are differentiating between the “real thing” and pictures or videos. I agree there is a difference, and if a husband or a wife becomes dependent on photos or videos instead of the the spouse, then that is a problem that needs to be dealt with. Every good thing must
be held in its appropriate place and not misused. Just because something can be abused, doesn’t make it wrong. Like I said earlier, we should not throw away good things because it can be perverted.

A good example is chocolate. Chocolate is made by God and is very good. Some of us eat too much chocolate. The solution is not to say that eating chocolate is wrong. Rather, the solution is do not eat too much chocolate. If this is a problem and you cannot eat chocolate without eating too much chocolate, then for you, you should not eat chocolate. But others are still free to eat chocolate if they can do so in moderation.

You said: “Yes, “visual stimulation,” especially for men, is important, but it seems photos isolate only one part of the experience.”

It is true that a photo can be isolating only one part of an experience. This is the beauty of photography. We do this every day when we take pictures of our children. I capture a photo of my son eating spaghetti when his face is really messy. This captures one thing about him. But when I take a photo of him playing on a swing, that captures something else. Neither of these things can ever replace my son. And I will never be tempted to choose the pictures of my son over my son. It is far better to watch him play on the swing with my own eyes and hold and hug him. But the pictures can remind of him and what he was like at that age. They can capture certain aspects and that can be good to remember.

The same is true in the bedroom. Capturing a single aspect doesn’t replace my spouse and the real experience of being with him. A picture is kind of like receiving a love letter. It is by far not the same as being together in person, but it can still be a nice gift.

“I don’t know if I’m communicating this properly, but I think we should be careful not to focus too much, or place too much importance, on the visual by partaking in an act (pictures) that ignores the whole/complete intimate experience (touch, smell, sound, taste, AND sight). Does that make sense?”

That makes sense. I don’t think it is necessarily an issue that makes pictures or videos wrong, though. Like my chocolate example, there is a difference between using something to enhance your sexual relationship and being dominated by it. I really see the occasional use of these things as a teaser or leading up to the “real deal,” not instead of it.

I’ve said a lot here. I guess I will say in summary, I have a few concerns.

My first concern is that we do not call things sinful just because the thing isn’t appealing to us or because it may be a temptation to us to sin, but is not in itself a sin. This is important because if Jesus didn’t call it a sin, but we do, we are adding to the Scriptures. There is freedom in Jesus to grab onto all things enjoyable if there is no sin in it. Ecclesiastes says, “Nothing is better for a man than that he should eat and drink, and that his soul should enjoy good in his labor. This also, I saw, was from the hand of God.”

That doesn’t mean that we live for pleasure, but it also doesn’t mean that we avoid it either. We live in a world with so much sorrow and suffering and so many labors, that God has given to us good things that we should enjoy while we are here. For they are from His hand. Christians should be the people that the world looks at and says, “Why are they so happy? I wish I was one of them.” And not “Why are they so dour and why do they never seem to enjoy life? I’m glad I don’t have to be one of them.”

But I think if you ask around, you will find that most of the world looks at Christians and they want to know why in the world they would want to be like us…never having any fun or enjoyment in life. But I think the way we should live should be such that they world covets our joy and our laughter and our freedom, without compromising and giving into sin.

My last concern is that we do not forget that the world belongs to Jesus and to us. Not to the world. We should not be afraid to reach out and grab hold of anything created and redeem it for Jesus. If there is music to be made…be it classical, jazz, rock, hiphop, or hymns, we should redeem these. There is no
Scripture that forbids drums…so if it pleases you, use them to glorify Jesus. There is no Scripture that says that electric guitars are a sin. So, if it moves you, worship God through music on an electric guitar. If there is food to be made, made it rich and glorious, make it with chocolate…and make it for Jesus. If there is dancing, let it be redeemed. Be it sensual dancing or liturgical dancing, these can both be done to glorify Jesus if done in the right context. All of this world belongs to Jesus and we should not let it rot in the hands of the heathen, but claim it for our own. We are in charge. We should be making good things. We should be redeeming hiphop, drums, and exotic dancing. And chocolate.

Hi Teresa,

You’ve made some good points. While I have some things I’d prefer to say in private, I will say this here: While a husband and wife who take explicit photos of one another may do so lawfully, one should still count the cost and consider the wisdom in doing so. There’s a whole host of things to consider. Just a few years ago, my sister and I, after my birth-father’s death, had to sort through his personal belongings. Consider what happens to the photos after you’re gone. Perhaps your children or grandchildren have to sort through such things – or maybe your brothers and sisters in Christ – or your parents. Or maybe the photos aren’t discovered and they wind up in an estate sale and fall into the hands of strangers. I’m sure I don’t have to go any further on this one. Just something to consider.

Also, who needs pictures when you have “the real thing?” I think photos might even cause one to “develop a taste” for pictures/fantasy, rather than real-life intimacy. Perhaps even causing an unnatural dependence on them. That’s just a theory, nothing profoundly Scriptural. Just something to ponder.

The thing is, there will come a time in a woman’s life (as well as a man’s) when her body will be “less photogenic.” Sexual intimacy is much more than “raw sensuality.” It’s a beautifully, spiritual, emotional, AND physical experience. Yes, “visual stimulation,” especially for men, is important, but it seems photos isolate only one part of the experience. If a couple becomes dependent on viewing photos or videos (of each other) as part of their intimacy, what happens when there’s not as much to look at anymore? By developing a habit of viewing photos, will the temptation be heightened to “look” elsewhere? I don’t know if I’m communicating this properly, but I think we should be careful not to focus too much, or place too much importance, on the visual by partaking in an act (pictures) that ignores the whole/complete intimate experience (touch, smell, sound, taste, AND sight). Does that make sense?

Bestiality? Homoesexuality? (Levitius 18) These are perversions that God forbids – there’s no way to turn abominations into something worthy.

“No one is having Godly sex! And if they are, they don’t know how and they feel dirty for doing it.”

I would strongly disagree with this. While this may be true for some, I don’t think it’s true for most. I would love to discuss this with you privately, since I think some conversations should be discussed discreetly (Titus 2:5) – considering the case of “mixed company” on a blog.

I’m sure that we will discussing this subject further over the years. For now though, I did want to make a comment which I think you will agree with, and might be helpful for those wandering in via search engines. Addiction to pornography is a selfish, destructive sin, and if fully the responsibility of the one who indulges in it. I mention this because of your final comment- for a wife who finds out that her husband is addicted to this filth, a common response is to wonder if she is not pretty enough, slim enough, etc. to hold her husband’s attention. A wife in that situation reading that comment might think “If only I were more skillful in bed, this wouldn’t have happened. It is my fault.” This is not the case. If a Christian couple has an unbiblical view of sex, yes, this can contribute to the problem of pornography addiction. But a husband who is sexually unsatisfied has a choice: solve the problem God’s way, or choose the putrid way of pornography, which never really satisfies and leads to death. His choice is his alone, and he is fully responsible for it. I encourage the Christian couple who finds themselves in the situation of having to deal with addiction to pornography to seek help immediately. Talk to your pastor, find resources online (www.settingcaptivesfree.com is a good one), and become accountable NOW to deal with this sin.

Go ahead and post them! Or, better yet, post them on your blog, then I’ll link over there. That way, you get content for your blog, and we both win!

I was actually thinking about this thought “go play” in the realm of political life.

Evil is the opposition or perversion of something Godly. There is no evil that is original. It is an exact perversion of something good that God has made. So if every sin is a perversion of something holy, then every sinful thing can be redeemed.

You did not discuss the redemption of pornography. So I will do it for you. (smile)

What is pornography? Pornography is pictures or movies of sexual acts or something to entice the viewer sexually. Pornography is the displaying of these things to people who are not Biblically permitted to view them. It is a perversion of the Godly practice of sex within marriage.

I say this is redeemable. I say that pornography can be redeemed by the allowing of a husband and wife to privately take pictures, or make movies for each other? A wife should feel she has the Biblical freedom to sensually dance for her husband, or leave him enticing pictures or to make him an enticing movie. If the relationship between Solomon and his wife were to have happened in the age of media, I would guess it would involve such things.

I think it is dangerous for Christian to assume that there are categories of things that cannot be redeemed. This assumes that there are parts of the world that do not belong to God. In the area of sex, the church has abandoned the issue and has told the world that Christians, because they are opposed to pornography and adultery (and rightfully so), that they are also be opposed to sex. We will not talk about it. We will not discipline married church members for withholding it. And we definitely won’t teach about it…except to say to people that you shouldn’t do it.

I quote a wonderful preacher who said in one of his sermons, “Sex is a nasty, dirty, vile thing. So save it for the one you love.” How true this statement is among the church. True love waits, gets married, and waits, and waits, and waits….

So it is no wonder there are so many divorces within the church. No one is having Godly sex! And if they are, they don’t know how and they feel dirty for doing it. Why is no one teaching young Godly women how to be sexy in the bedroom? Why is no one teaching young Godly men how to please their wives? This should be an integral part of our raising up of our children. It should be right up there with teaching math, literature, and catechism.

Can pornography be redeemed? Of course! But keep the pictures and movies in the bedroom. Maybe men wouldn’t be so tempted to view pornography if they knew that their wives would be far superior to what they could find on the internet.

I say we take sex back from the world and show them that we can have more fun than they can!