Texas polygamists
2008.04.25
I’ve been thinking about blogging about the situation in Texas. It’s a ticklish situation, but it needs to be addressed. Happily, I don’t have to; James and Stacy McDonald have taken up the task instead. So, all I have to say is, “Read these posts.”
Well, except something my wife pointed out.
The original raid was prompted by a single anonymous phone call, right? (Which, by the way, turns out to have been fake.) So, on the basis of a single anonymous phone call, the police are allowed to raid what is essentially a small town? That would be like the police raiding every house in the University East neighborhood on the basis of a single anonymous drug tip.
I thought that kind of thing only happened in “bad” countries. Hmm.
Remember… they hate us because we’re free…
I think what was going on in that compound was known about by several people in the community for years, but were restricted from doing anything about it because of lack of credible witnesses People in those communities are brainwashed into believing everyone outside their community is evil, so in the off-chance they do get out, they’re scared to say anything about it. I’ve heard countless stories about the FLDS church, and read a bit about them too, and i hate to say i have no sympathy for them. I feel what they do is atrocious… the brainwashing… the inbreeding… the raping.
Did the FBI do everything exactly by the book? Perhaps not, but for the moment i’m more excited that they shut down another polygamist colony than I am with reforming our FBI system.
After reading James McDonald’s post, i thought i might throw out a little of why i have a hard time with the FLDS..for a good read on the FLDS, please read “Under the Banner of Heaven” by Jon Krakkauer… There are many other good resources on the abuse caused by the FLDS church… if you can stomach them.
Hey, Jon!
Let’s start with common ground. I’ve read “Under the Banner of Heaven” (borrowed it from you, in fact), so we’re working from pretty much the same knowledge base. So yeah, not defending the FLDS in either doctrine or practice.
But in dealing with anyone–even a group as wicked as the FLDS–we must still abide by biblical standards of justice and the constitutional protections afforded to all citizens of this country. So, for example, where are the two or three witnesses? All we have is one–one who has turned out to be a false witness. And what about my point about a warrant?
Fighting evil with evil does not produce justice; it only produces more evil. It is not enough that “they” were stopped. If they were stopped by an exercise of raw force, then we have merely traded one evil for another.
Rather, if we truly desire justice for victims, then we must first be just ourselves. Moreover, we must entrust ourselves and our nation to the Judge Who judges justly. Our constitutional protections only work if we assume the superintendence of a God Who sees all and will reward everyone according to his deeds. Jesus knew what was going on in that ranch, and He is capable of handling it in His due time. It is not for us to try to assure justice to all, but rather to do justice as He has commanded, trusting that He will provide true justice to all that need it.
Here’s my concern. Much of the criticism of this FLDS group in the popular press boils down to “They look different from us”. Check out this article for an example of what I’m talking about. Um, I hate to say this, but I look different from “them”, too. Is it okay for my house to be raided? Will my children one day be paraded before the national media, while everyone comments, “It’s terrible! These children have never seen MTV, and they’re so polite. Something must be done!”
There’s a famous poem that has appeared in various forms about Nazi Germany. Here’s the version that I’ll cite:
I’m not okay with the FLDS. I’m also not okay with a government that acts on its whims against the dictates of both biblical justice and our own constitutional rules. And therefore, I speak.
Because, otherwise, who will speak for me?
Seth,
I get what you’re saying, and part of me wants to agree. I must also state for the record that i do not support all (or many) of the government’s actions. I don’t believe in their infallibility, and i don’t believe they always have my best interests at heart. But I don’t think they’re fundamentally evil, and i don’t think they are equal to the Gestapo (as you’ve alluded).
After hearing what the FLDS stands for, and what the church actually does to these kids is so horrible in my mind that i have a hard time saying that stopping it is “unjust”. Perhaps that’s a bit of an emotional reaction on my part, rather than a logical (or just) one, but if you’re worried about trading an evil for an evil, that works in the reverse, too. Would you choose to let several generations of children be exposed to rape and incest for the sake of due process? Can you imagine the look of fear and confusion in your own daughter’s eyes if you traded her to a 40 year old man for sex? I guess it’s easier to allow if it’s not your own daughter, but it’s horrible just the same.
It sounds like your real issue is “people in conservative clothing vs. the big, bad, scary government”. In this case, i’d offer an additional verse be added onto the Nazi-era poem:
“Then they came for the children,
and i did not act because i was not a child”
Jon if the state has proof of rape they should file charges. If my memory serves me much of the case against flds prophet Jeffs was based on his trying to convince an underage girl to sleep with her husband. I did not ever hear of Jeffs telling the husband to just force her. The charge of rape and incest within the flds church is thrown about in books “under a banner of heaven”(I have read). There are also many books that rant about the evil of raising children in a home school, stay at home mom, conservative christian home. Should I send the state to take your children? I talk to people every day in my shop and I can tell you that many would see the average home school kid as being in the same boat as the flds kids. On days when I have my youngest son (5) at the shop I have had people tell me to my face that he “NEEDS” to be in school. Jon I think you and many others are missing the point as to were all of this is headed. My book pick for you would be to read about the Duke players rape case.
Mike,
I still have very strong feelings on the matter, but i’m letting the argument drop for now. I hate hijacking someone else’s blog for the sake of ONE argument. But i’m curious if you had a particular book about the Duke rape case you’re recommending, or if you’re just suggesting i read about it.
As memory serves, i wasn’t a big fan of either side of that case.
Hey, you guys are being polite and all, so I don’t consider this to be hijacking.
In other words, you may continue to fight for my amusement.
The book “Until Proven Innocent” by Stuart Taylor. Read it and then tell me how we just need to give the Texas legal system time to work.
The big question in Texas should be “why now”? People have known for a long time about the FLDS church, so why go in now and yank all the kids and make a big media show out of it all? The Feds as well as the state have had years to investigate this group and build a case. Were is that case?
I should add that if you were not a fan of either side in the Duke case you really should read the book.